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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenn9o9n View Post
    I took it as the PC wins. We're in a world full of hate, then since our world sucked because of the hate, someone would start a reason to shit on anyone who found comfort in opening up to that comfort as a safe place for them to open up as being a part of it. It's so confusing, alienating, and I never thought I'd have to hear about Kevin Barnes' lyrics being connected to racism and homophobia but here we are.
    Skeletal Lampling was one of the things that helped me come out to myself tbh so I'm not discounting that album as a whole. I think it's a beautiful work of art but all art (and artists!) should be up for criticism!! People are flawed, their work is flawed too.

  2. #12

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    EDIT: Had a small rant, decided it wasn't worth it.
    "Walking on water wasn't built in a day"- Kerouac

  3. #13
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    I didn't read the original thread because I'm not a member of the group. But this is honestly something that I kinda figured would one day surface. Kinda surprise that 'shit didn't hit the fan' already, and if Skeletal Lamping were released today I'm sure there would have been a ton of controversy surrounding this.

    First I think it's important to call those things what they really are. "Transphobic" or "racist" implies negative feelings towards those groups, which is definitely not the case. I think the word people are looking for is alleged "appropriation".

    Regarding accusations of trans appropriation, Kevin's been experimenting with the public expression of his sexuality and gender identity for over 10 years now. Who has the authority to claim that he doesn't identify with the trans community to some degree and isn't sincere about that component of the identity? He's gender fluid and proud of it, and to claim that he doesn't have the right to identify as such is a denial of his own sexual expression.

    I think the problem here is that he explicitly stated in interviews that the 'character' is black and that he used that god awful line "I'm just a black she-male". I love Skeletal Lamping and enjoy Wicked Wisdom, but that's a very cringe-y line even if not construed as problematic. Why does the character have to be black? Because black people are cooler and more FuNKY? Because he was manic as hell at the time and wanted to be viewed as the next Prince, skin color and all? I doubt he truly meant any harm, but this was pretentious at best and completely tone-deaf at worst. White people borrowing black personas in music is as old as music itself, but there was always something worse to me about him being so direct about it in the 'Georgie Fruit character'. Like he's self-aware enough to realize that it could be a bad look, but did it anyway. Georgie worked well as an expression of his gender fluidity and sexuality and I don't feel that that component is worth criticizing, but the idea that he had to be 'black' too was dumb. On top of this, you didn't need to understand the whole Georgie Fruit idea to enjoy the album, and the only people who knew wtf he was talking about there are the die hard fans who read the interviews during the time. So to add to the annoyingness, just think how 99% of people reacted when hearing that line for the first time.

    With that said, all of this is going on 10 years old now and hasn't really been revisited since. I think people should be allowed to make mistakes and grow from them (as long as it wasn't like, a criminal thing) without having to be publicly attacked.

  4. #14
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    Georgie Fruit was black.

  5. #15
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    I don't see why it's so bad to admit it's sketchy, its a pretty honest assessment. Good intent or not your words matter and have an affect and you cant really tell people how they're supposed to take it.

  6. #16

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    Regarding Georgie Fruit,

    I suppose the plotline of him having "multiple" sex changes isn't kosher in the trans community, and him having been in prison plays to a racist stereotype.

    To be honest I don't really care. I feel like Skeletal Lamping was coming from a fantastical place (like Coquelicot and the other early albums) where real world issues don't exist.

    Kevin's more recent writing has clearly reflected greater concern and interest in political and social issues, and I'd guess he used those songs to express his own viewpoints, which are about as PC/SJW as a middle aged man who has spent most of his life in his internal creative world can get.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy boy View Post
    Kevin's more recent writing has clearly reflected greater concern and interest in political and social issues, and I'd guess he used those songs to express his own viewpoints, which are about as PC/SJW as a middle aged man who has spent most of his life in his internal creative world can get.
    Yeah, he's definitely paid his dues since and abandoned the shtick. I feel like there's really no explanation for it though other than the mania he was going through at the time. But he's obviously more even-keeled now and isn't doing anything upsetting publicly... aside from 'allegedly' breaking up the romantic relationship of his opening band on tour last year. But I digress.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
    aside from 'allegedly' breaking up the romantic relationship of his opening band on tour last year. But I digress.
    What was that?
    You've got a real problem, alright. And a banjo is the only answer.

  9. #19
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    I take back what I said its cool to say shemale

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