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thekingisdead
11-11-2006, 10:12 PM
Dear Friends,

Recently there have been a lot of posts inquiring of musical equipment and techniques. Many people who join this forum (including myself) subsequently become interested in making music of their own. I thought it would be a neat idea to compile all the existing townhaller knowledge of creating and recording music into one helpful guide for aspiring townhall musicians. If anyone wants to help, simply post advice, and I'll periodically add it all to the first post. It could be anything, a songwriting or recording technique, a microphone suggestion, a description of an instrument and its uses...anything. Once a significant number of people have posted, I'll compile it into an outline, which can grow and grow with each new personal tip.


(this out line will become more complex, but basically...)

I. Making Music
A. Instruments

*Use unconventional instruments (they're fun!) and don't look at conventional instruments..well..conventionally! You can make some really neat sounds by making slight alterations to your instruments, or just playing them a bit differently. (like by untuning your ukelele, playing it with odd vibrato, then recording it backwards ;))- tomatoesandradiowires

B.Songwriting

*Songwriting (from soniclovenoize) :

NOTE: This little essay pertains to my own personal songwriting. I really dig melodic songs, verse/chorus/verse, Beatles-influenced stuff, so of course my advice is stemming from that whole pop-song genre. Take it or leave it. I'm sure those of you who do not like this tyep of music will loathe my little essay; instead of flaming, just ignore it. To each his own, right? This advice isn't absolute, and I'm sure not everyone needs to heed it...

* Listen to a lot of music... Listen for things you like and you want to emulate. Listen to things you do not like and wish to avoid. If you want to be completely original, listen to what has been done to know room there is to create. Or just listen to music to learn rules, only to break them!

* Songs start as seeds that need to be harvested and grown. Sometimes they start as a stray melody that needs to be expounded on. I write many songs like that, coming up with an abstract lyirc and a melody...
"Cellophane feelin from a 7am ceilin / And it's only ours to keep"
I wrote that and it meant nothing (at first). So the next step is to find out what it means... I interpret 'Cellophane feelin' as the feeling you get when you first wake up in the morning and you are too comfy to get up, maybe in a fetal postion, and all you want to look at is just the ceiling, laying in your bed. That's what I thought the line meant, and so you expound on it...
"Detroit's callin back the San Francisco pollen / Christ I gotta get some sleep"
That's one way I write songs, creating an abstract thought, finding my own unintentional meaning, then expounding it into more abstract that can be later re-interpreted by the listener.

* Find a song you like, and dissect it. What makes it a hit, what makes it good? The learn from it! For example, let's take a look at a song I'm sure we all know, "Say it Ain't So" by Weezer.
- Note the song follows a basic 4-chord progression (C#m G# A E), played both the verse and chorus, the difference between the two is dynamics (soft verse/rockin chorus, what we will call "The Pixies Dynamic"). Many modern pop songs follow this formula (The Pixies Dynamic), and it's a sure-fire way to make a hit. But take note that although the chord progression stays the same, the melody completely changes. So there's a lesson: if you have a song with the same progressions in the verse/chorus, utilize two seperate melodies, preferbly the more hooky of the two as a chorus
- Note the first words of the chorus "Say it ain't so..." Another lesson: if you ever get stuck for a killer chorus, find an age-old saying "Say it ain't so, Joe!" and embed it into the lyrics of the chorus. Make it a catch-phrase.
- Although the verse and chgorus are the same, there is what we call a middle-eight stuck in the middle of the song to break the monotony of the same 4 chords. So if you're writing a song like this, be sure to shake it up a bit and toss in a new element to the structure...

* Yeah, I know, kinda hokey to dissect a Weezer song, huh? Move on to a Beatles song like "We Can Work It Out" or "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away". Take a look at the melody and where it goes ontop of the chord progression, as well as the structure.

* Watch out for obvious rhymes! An example:
"All the pain you brought to me
But untill the day _______"
What's the next line? it was "you see". Pretty obvious, huh? That's the point: been there, done that. Why write predictable songs? So next time you are writing some song, stop youself before finishing a line: can I think of another word to communicate this that isn't "you" and "too"? Would that improve the song? Would that allow me to go into a completely new direction with the following line, that I didn't even think of going before?


II. Recording Music
A.Digital
A1. Recording to Computer

* "In most PC's and Mac's there's a simple recording device that you can use to record with, just connect a cheap mic to the mic input and record. Then if you want to, you can edit these sounds, add effects etc by downloading a free audio editing program. Just search for "free audio editing software" in any search engine. These programs usually allow you to record too but you probably need a fancy soundcard for that."
Play loud (so the microphone can hear it) and just do it. Practice makes perfect, don't expect classic records at first. - Big H

*If multitracking by yourself using a DAW (digital audio workstation, like protools, garageband, blablabla), try to record with a click track to keep a steady pace. it helps so much, especially when you're recording a song with any traditional western time signatures and/or a chorus/verse/bridge structure... because you can simply drop a whole musical phrase (like a verses chord progression) into the song later and it can save you a lot of work without sounding artificial or something.- tralala

*This may seem basic to alot of people, but when you're done with a track, save it in the default file type that your recorder saves in, before you convert. So say you're program saves everything as a .wav, save it thusly. then convert to an mp3 or whatever. in my experience your comp is alot more likely to stop responding during a conversion then during a basic save, and you don't want to lose your track!- tomatoesandradiowires

A2. Digital Multi-Track Recorders
B.Analog
B1. Tape Recorders
B2. Multi-Track Recorders
C.Instruments
C1.Recording drums:

FOUR MICS:
To get a good drum sound with home-recording equipment (as well as limited tracks and microphones), I use a 4-mic recording configuration, micing the snare, kick, and two overheads to get a stereo picture of the cymbols and remaining drums...
- SM57 mic on the snare. I mic it as close as possible to the top head of the snare. Experiment different positions to get different sounds, and in a way so it isn't intrusive to the drummer.
- AKG D112 mic on the kick drum. I mic it 6 inches from the drum; experiment to get different sounds, like a few feet away or even inside the drum itself. Your average SM58 vocal mic also gets a decent sound, as well as a PZM "plate" microphone...
- 2 condencer mics for overheads, I use MXL 2001 condencer mics. I mic them about 4 feet above the drummer, sometimes higher, for ambience. You want to place them so they equaly pick up toms and cymbols since you have no actual toms miced, but most important is to capture the actual drum sound (unless you are trying to achieve something else specificly). Once again, experiment to get what you like... I've also used SM57s and SM58s as overheads to get some good results, although the condencers have a better frequency responce for overhead micing...

* I record this setup onto 4-track, each mic recieving their own track. I mix the kick and snare to the center with the 2 overheads panned hard left and right--that seems to get an accurate stereo picture of the kit. I add a tad bit of high end to the snare for some crack, add a tad of low end to the kick for thump, and remove some high end from the two overheads so it's not too bright. I then mix this down to stereo 2-track into a digital multitrack program (SONAR, ProTools, etc) and overdub at will.

* When mixing, it's genral rule to mix as you see the drums stereophonicly, with kick and snare in the center (because they hold the main rhythm) and everything else spread left and right. Remember that human's generally percieve lower frequencies monophonicly, so bass and kick drums are best panned in the center.

* Don't mic the hi-hat; you will get more than enough signal bleeding from the snare mic and the right overhead mic.

* If you have more that 4 tracks/mics to use, go ahead and mic the toms, try SM57s. Mix them to make an accurate stereo picture of the drums.

If you have less than 4 tracks, you'll have to experiment to capture a good drum sound with two or three mics...


THREE MICS:
Of course, utilize the above tips.
- Try: 1 mic on the kick with two overheads. OR
- Try: 1 mic on kick, 1 on snare, and third as overhead left to capture what the snare mic doesn't.
Experiment to get the sound you like...

* Careful when mixing to not mix tracks hard left, you might get an un-natural drum sound! It's sometimes better to mix in mono or it will sound weird.

TWO MICS:
It's getting harder to get a good drum sound, huh? Utilize the above tips...
- Try 1 mic on kick, 1 as overhead center

* Try moving that sole overhead at different places to get different sounds, like behind drummer, overhead centered or even mounted above kickdrum, staring at drummer.

* Experiment, experiment, experiment! -soniclovenoise

III. Releasing Music


As this progresses, I'll continue to clean it up.


[Edited on 11-12-0606 by thekingisdead]

[Edited on 11-12-0606 by thekingisdead]

[Edited on 11-13-0606 by thekingisdead]

[Edited on 11-13-0606 by thekingisdead]

[Edited on 11-15-0606 by thekingisdead]

Big-H
11-12-2006, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by http://www.jenslekman.com/records/smalltalk.htm
In most PC's and Mac's there's a simple recording device that you can use to record with, just connect a cheap mic to the mic input and record. Then if you want to, you can edit these sounds, add effects etc by downloading a free audio editing program. Just search for "free audio editing software" in any search engine. These programs usually allow you to record too but you probably need a fancy soundcard for that.

Basically, that, and play loud (so the microphone can hear it) and just do it. Practice makes perfect, don't expect classic records at first.


I realize you more asked if anyone wanted to help, but I felt obligated to share that.

[Edited on 11-12-0606 by Big-H]

damonin
11-12-2006, 10:40 AM
when recording fuzzed out electric gutiar place the microphone right infront of the speaker. it makes for a really fuzzed out crusty sound that im sure some neutral milk hotel fans would enjoy ;)

Aqualad
11-12-2006, 10:44 AM
We should make a wiki instead. that would be cool. peoplecould cubmit their ideas and stuff to different instruments. etc.

tralala
11-12-2006, 11:32 AM
if multitracking by yourself using a DAW (digital audio workstation, like protools, garageband, blablabla), try to record with a click track to keep a steady pace. it helps so much, especially when you're recording a song with any traditional western time signatures and/or a chorus/verse/bridge structure... because you can simply drop a whole musical phrase (like a verses chord progression) into the song later and it can save you a lot of work without sounding artificial or something.

not trying to plug my own music or anything.... but check out my latest solo multitracking project if ya want: sensational sam & the seasonal spookestra (http://www.myspace.com/thespookestra) .... i definitely learned some time-saving tricks to help one 20 year old boy recording on garageband in his room with one cheap mic sound like something more. hurray!!

i hope this post catches on, because it would be great to see some other tips from non-professionals using cheap equipment!!

[Edited on 11-12-0606 by tralala]

tomatoesandradiowires
11-12-2006, 12:01 PM
Can any of you help me work wonders with Sound blaster Creative wave studio? Also thanks damonin, that's some neat advice.

that aside heres my tips,

instruments
-Use unconventional instruments (they're fun!) and don't look at conventional instruments..well..conventionally! You can make some really neat sounds by making slight alterations to your instruments, or just playing them a bit differently. (like by untuning your ukelele, playing it with odd vibrato, then recording it backwards ;))
recording
-This may seem basic to alot of people, but when you're done with a track, save it in the default file type that your recorder saves in, before you convert. So say you're program saves everything as a .wav, save it thusly. then convert to an mp3 or whatever. in my experience your comp is alot more likely to stop responding during a conversion then during a basic save, and you don't want to lose your track!
listening
ever listen to a really musically rich (whether it be complex or minimilistic) in complete darkness with as much outside noise deadened as possible? You're missing out if you havent. inversly, don't miss the chance to blast your favourite tunes in an empty house :]

thekingisdead
11-12-2006, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Aqualad
We should make a wiki instead. that would be cool. peoplecould cubmit their ideas and stuff to different instruments. etc.

I like that idea, but I thought it would be neat to have something right here on the townhall.

thekingisdead
11-12-2006, 12:32 PM
I just updated it a bit before I had to go to work, ill add everything thats been posted so far later. I'm also going to clean up the outline to make it as easy to use as possible.Another way to use this thread:

If you need a question answered, post your question here. Someone's sure to answer.This will help the guide grow even faster.

Aqualad
11-12-2006, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by thekingisdead
Originally posted by Aqualad
We should make a wiki instead. that would be cool. peoplecould cubmit their ideas and stuff to different instruments. etc.

I like that idea, but I thought it would be neat to have something right here on the townhall.

well, this thread would soon get bloated, and it'd be easier than wading through the stuff you don't want.

soniclovenoize
11-13-2006, 09:33 AM
Recording drums:

FOUR MICS:
To get a good drum sound with home-recording equipment (as well as limited tracks and microphones), I use a 4-mic recording configuration, micing the snare, kick, and two overheads to get a stereo picture of the cymbols and remaining drums...
- SM57 mic on the snare. I mic it as close as possible to the top head of the snare. Experiment different positions to get different sounds, and in a way so it isn't intrusive to the drummer.
- AKG D112 mic on the kick drum. I mic it 6 inches from the drum; experiment to get different sounds, like a few feet away or even inside the drum itself. Your average SM58 vocal mic also gets a decent sound, as well as a PZM "plate" microphone...
- 2 condencer mics for overheads, I use MXL 2001 condencer mics. I mic them about 4 feet above the drummer, sometimes higher, for ambience. You want to place them so they equaly pick up toms and cymbols since you have no actual toms miced, but most important is to capture the actual drum sound (unless you are trying to achieve something else specificly). Once again, experiment to get what you like... I've also used SM57s and SM58s as overheads to get some good results, although the condencers have a better frequency responce for overhead micing...

* I record this setup onto 4-track, each mic recieving their own track. I mix the kick and snare to the center with the 2 overheads panned hard left and right--that seems to get an accurate stereo picture of the kit. I add a tad bit of high end to the snare for some crack, add a tad of low end to the kick for thump, and remove some high end from the two overheads so it's not too bright. I then mix this down to stereo 2-track into a digital multitrack program (SONAR, ProTools, etc) and overdub at will.

* When mixing, it's genral rule to mix as you see the drums stereophonicly, with kick and snare in the center (because they hold the main rhythm) and everything else spread left and right. Remember that human's generally percieve lower frequencies monophonicly, so bass and kick drums are best panned in the center.

* Don't mic the hi-hat; you will get more than enough signal bleeding from the snare mic and the right overhead mic.

* If you have more that 4 tracks/mics to use, go ahead and mic the toms, try SM57s. Mix them to make an accurate stereo picture of the drums.

If you have less than 4 tracks, you'll have to experiment to capture a good drum sound with two or three mics...


THREE MICS:
Of course, utilize the above tips.
- Try: 1 mic on the kick with two overheads. OR
- Try: 1 mic on kick, 1 on snare, and third as overhead left to capture what the snare mic doesn't.
Experiment to get the sound you like...

* Careful when mixing to not mix tracks hard left, you might get an un-natural drum sound! It's sometimes better to mix in mono or it will sound weird.

TWO MICS:
It's getting harder to get a good drum sound, huh? Utilize the above tips...
- Try 1 mic on kick, 1 as overhead center

* Try moving that sole overhead at different places to get different sounds, like behind drummer, overhead centered or even mounted above kickdrum, staring at drummer.

* Experiment, experiment, experiment!

dr.barfton
11-13-2006, 09:38 AM
*dont worry about recording yet until you:

*practice practice practice practice X 100000000000000000000000000000000000000million

Aqualad
11-13-2006, 10:12 AM
ha, i started recording about a week after i picked up an instrument

damonin
11-13-2006, 04:06 PM
no problem, make sure to turn the volume down on your mixer or you will get some annoying digital fuzz noise that might not sound too nice.

damonin
11-13-2006, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Aqualad
ha, i started recording about a week after i picked up an instrument

haha so did i, i have some truly terrible recordings still on my hardrive that a saved from a long time ago.. i used to record using head phones, than i progressed to a crappy computer mic. recording from taht eraly on has helped out alot though you get used to finding out what levels sound good and you have gained some knowledge of how to add digital effets using whatever program you have become accustomed to..

tomatoesandradiowires
11-13-2006, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by dr.barfton
*dont worry about recording yet until you:

*practice practice practice practice X 100000000000000000000000000000000000000million

what's a more honest way to evaluate yourself than listening to a recording..

soniclovenoize
11-13-2006, 07:36 PM
Songwriting:

NOTE: This little essay pertains to my own personal songwriting. I really dig melodic songs, verse/chorus/verse, Beatles-influenced stuff, so of course my advice is stemming from that whole pop-song genre. Take it or leave it. I'm sure those of you who do not like this tyep of music will loathe my little essay; instead of flaming, just ignore it. To each his own, right? This advice isn't absolute, and I'm sure not everyone needs to heed it...

* Listen to a lot of music... Listen for things you like and you want to emulate. Listen to things you do not like and wish to avoid. If you want to be completely original, listen to what has been done to know room there is to create. Or just listen to music to learn rules, only to break them!

* Songs start as seeds that need to be harvested and grown. Sometimes they start as a stray melody that needs to be expounded on. I write many songs like that, coming up with an abstract lyirc and a melody...
"Cellophane feelin from a 7am ceilin / And it's only ours to keep"
I wrote that and it meant nothing (at first). So the next step is to find out what it means... I interpret 'Cellophane feelin' as the feeling you get when you first wake up in the morning and you are too comfy to get up, maybe in a fetal postion, and all you want to look at is just the ceiling, laying in your bed. That's what I thought the line meant, and so you expound on it...
"Detroit's callin back the San Francisco pollen / Christ I gotta get some sleep"
That's one way I write songs, creating an abstract thought, finding my own unintentional meaning, then expounding it into more abstract that can be later re-interpreted by the listener.

* Find a song you like, and dissect it. What makes it a hit, what makes it good? The learn from it! For example, let's take a look at a song I'm sure we all know, "Say it Ain't So" by Weezer.
- Note the song follows a basic 4-chord progression (C#m G# A E), played both the verse and chorus, the difference between the two is dynamics (soft verse/rockin chorus, what we will call "The Pixies Dynamic"). Many modern pop songs follow this formula (The Pixies Dynamic), and it's a sure-fire way to make a hit. But take note that although the chord progression stays the same, the melody completely changes. So there's a lesson: if you have a song with the same progressions in the verse/chorus, utilize two seperate melodies, preferbly the more hooky of the two as a chorus
- Note the first words of the chorus "Say it ain't so..." Another lesson: if you ever get stuck for a killer chorus, find an age-old saying "Say it ain't so, Joe!" and embed it into the lyrics of the chorus. Make it a catch-phrase.
- Although the verse and chgorus are the same, there is what we call a middle-eight stuck in the middle of the song to break the monotony of the same 4 chords. So if you're writing a song like this, be sure to shake it up a bit and toss in a new element to the structure...

* Yeah, I know, kinda hokey to dissect a Weezer song, huh? Move on to a Beatles song like "We Can Work It Out" or "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away". Take a look at the melody and where it goes ontop of the chord progression, as well as the structure.

* Watch out for obvious rhymes! An example:
"All the pain you brought to me
But untill the day _______"
What's the next line? it was "you see". Pretty obvious, huh? That's the point: been there, done that. Why write predictable songs? So next time you are writing some song, stop youself before finishing a line: can I think of another word to communicate this that isn't "you" and "too"? Would that improve the song? Would that allow me to go into a completely new direction with the following line, that I didn't even think of going before?

Does this help? Do you guys want me continue with songwriting tips or should I just quit while I'm behind?

Big-H
11-13-2006, 07:46 PM
In response to sonic (thanks! it is good advice) if you do use expected rhymes, play with the delivery. A good friend of mine says if it seems a little forced then record it sounding 'on the spot'.

[Edited on 11-14-0606 by Big-H]

soniclovenoize
11-14-2006, 08:27 AM
Songwriting tips pt 2:

* Do not be afraid of unintentional copycatting and rip-offs. The fact is that there are only 12 notes in Western music and a finite amount of chords. Chances are you will write a song that just happens to sound like another pre-existing song. Don't fret! I had a former band mate who spent years trying to write songs, and never finished anything; he would half-finish a song, stop and say "Oh wait, that sounds like___" and then scrap it. He never finished a song in like 3 years after starting around 30. Is that anyway to be creative and express yourself? There's ALWAYS going to be a song that kind of sounds like something else. After all, how many songs in the 50s and 60s (and even today) that follow a I-IV-V progression? Or how about G F C? If this still bothers you, then remember the mort important thing: arrangement. If you end up writing a song you consciously know sounds like one of your faves, design the arrangement and instrumentation to be the complete opposite.

* Do not be afraid of intentional copycatting and rip-offs. I am of course not saying you should go ahead and blatantly steal songs, change a few words here and there, but let's just say inspiration lies everywhere. Don't hesitate to be "inspired" by a few seconds of something else.
Example... My fiancé forced me to listen to Jesus Christ Superstar, and much to my surprise, I was blown away, especially by the song "Superstar". The first three notes rang in my head for about a month ("Jesus Christ..."), until those three notes became my own lyric ("Periscope..."). From there on, I wrote a song from that 3-note melody and lyric, completely different from "Superstar". But the genesis would not have occurred if it wasn't for me ripping off the first three notes of Jesus Christ Superstar...
If that doesn't sink in, remember that John Lennon wrote "Because" based off of Moonlight Sonata played backwards (or so the legend says, it might be simply unfounded). I myself have played Beatles songs backwards, and "borrowed" the backwards chord progressions for my own songs. Lesson here: If you are in a songwriting rut and need a new chord progression, just play a Beatle song backwards!

* When writing lyrics, be sure to revise, revise, revise! It's just like writing poetry: many famous poets took years to write their most noted works. They spent that time revising the words to be perfect. So don't think the very first draft you penned to paper has to be the finalized song: think about the rhymes, the imagery, meter and rhythm... Can you be more concise? Can you use a less clichéd metaphor? Don't be afraid to put words that don't mean anything together. Just as stated in one of my first tips, write it first, think about it and find meaning, then expand and revise as needed... I wrote a song with the line:
"The time has come again my friend / The answer to your questions / Who allowed apostles juxtaposed?"
Hmmm. What the fuck does that mean? At first I didn't know, it just sounded cool; it took a few seconds for me to realize what it meant and it worked perfectly, it's exactly what I was trying to say! Was it too pretentious? NO! Because words can be anything you want them to be: if you want to put 'apostles' and 'juxtaposed' together, you CAN because YOU are writing YOUR song. Just be ready to defend your words, their meaning; I know I did with that line!

wingedfeetxc
11-14-2006, 10:55 AM
this thread is fantastic

theoperahouse
11-14-2006, 06:02 PM
pretty sweet

soniclovenoize
11-20-2006, 07:40 PM
C'mon, guys! Don't let a good idea die...

Anyone else?

tomatoesandradiowires
11-20-2006, 08:28 PM
Ehh, Good idea yes, realistic? fine place for general knowledge but I don't think anyone feels any incentive to post here each time they answer a specific music question elsewhere on the forum.

thekingisdead
11-21-2006, 08:37 AM
i can see how this thread could easily become swamped. It was probably a bad idea, its just as easy for everyone to just ask questions. If someone else would lke to take the helm of this, it's fine with me.

auxiliaryoctopus
11-21-2006, 12:34 PM
How I learned to write songs:

1. Do what you can with what you have.

2. Don't think about how you want to sound, think about how you actually sound.

3. Let other people decide whether they like it or not. You can't simultaniously create and critique.

4. Allow yourself to not write the best song in history every time.

5. Create a pretend genre, pretend it has always existed, and you're just creating songs in that tradition.

soniclovenoize
11-21-2006, 02:53 PM
Really good advice, aux! Especially #3, I was going to talk about that but forgot...

Big-H
11-21-2006, 09:53 PM
Use effects sparingly, even if it's a collage/loop.

Looping you can get away with more, but change will draw a listener in.

One exception is reverb/echo, especially on the voice. But don't over use it, make it subtle.

ryanlescure
12-04-2006, 12:39 PM
"2. Don't think about how you want to sound, think about how you actually sound. "

This is my problem. I listen to certain bands repeatedly hoping that if I learn to play their songs, my songwriting will begin to pick up some aspects of the band's songwriting, but I only become disappointed when I realize that my song sounds like the same old boring shit that I always record.

Thanks for the great advice so far.