Black Foliage

[thecauseofgauze]

i'm listening to it right now. SO GOOD! i've forgotten how much i enjoy otc. will there be a volume 2, ect.? i still haven't heard "dusk at cubist castle". i plan to buy it from cloud pretty soon. is it better than "black foliage"?

[henrikhhh]

speaking of dusk at.., i still haven't tried playing the bonus disc simultaneously with the first disc, which is supposed to "realize true quadraphonic sound".. anyone tried this?


...

[Harnk]

Dusk at Cubist Castle does not come close to the genius and uniqueness of Black Foliage. It just doesn't compare IMHO. There is no synergy on that album, but with that said it's still a great listen. I feel the same way about Avery Island in comparison to Aeroplane.

What's strange to me is that when I bought Black Foliage in 2000 I immediately recognized the way they used certain tracks on other tracks to build upon, but I don't notic it anymore.

I love rediscovering that album, it always seems better. I make a concious effort to shelve it every once and again so that I come in fresh for anothe listen.

Black Foliage is the ultimate album and by far the greatest thing to come from the Elephant Six squad....better than Aeroplane if you ask me.:o

[William]

I only have Dusk At Cubist Castle. I like it alot. I'll get Black Foliage when it is re-released. I was wondering which one was generally considered to be better. If Black Foliage is better than Dusk At Cubist Castle than it must be very good because I think Dusk at Cubist Castle is really great.

[bedbug]

Originally posted by Harnk


Black Foliage is the ultimate album and by far the greatest thing to come from the Elephant Six squad

I agree. Probably my favorite album ever. When I first got into OTC I liked Dusk better, but Black Foliage is a bit deeper. You can listen to it more or something. Takes longer to appreciate, but also stays with you longer

Both are great. So much more than just "psychedelic" albums in my opinion. Nothing compares.

[grimble gromble]

they are both beyond amazing. Foliage is darker, deeper, and does have more synergy... while Dusk has more pop and melody to it and songs stand out more on their own. I think Dusk is probably a better one to listen to first if you're just getting into OTC, because Foliage is more of an acquired taste and can scare someone off at first... although the more you listen the more you get sucked into the amazingly dense Foliage.

and if you love Foliage you must also check out the Circulatory System album... it's another one that grows and grows and grows.

:)

[dolemites_sister]

I like Dusk the best.. However, its probably because, like grimble gromble said, it has more of a pop feel and is more melodic.

j

[henrikhhh]

it came as a bonus disc with the first thousand copies of dusk. today, after work, i will try and play them together for the first time

...

[acrobat]

Originally posted by Harnk
Dusk at Cubist Castle does not come close to the genius and uniqueness of Black Foliage.

Pffft. Dusk at Cubist Castle, in fact, is a superior record. But they are both phenomenal, that is certainly true.

Don't worry, we still love you ;)

[martinicon]

Add another check in the "Dusk better than Black" column. It is simply the better album (though both, of course, are great, else we wouldn't be talking about them.) Dusk is simply more fun and after all, isn't that why we listen?

[prehistoric]

Originally posted by martinicon
Add another check in the "Dusk better than Black" column. It is simply the better album (though both, of course, are great, else we wouldn't be talking about them.) Dusk is simply more fun and after all, isn't that why we listen?

And another! "......Foliage" is phenomenal but I can't help but feel it drags at little towards the end. After "The Bark & Below It" there are a couple of tunes which aren't that great, and kinda spoil the flow, whereas they don't put a foot wrong on "DACC" in my opinion.

[ulysses]

It is indeed a well thought out album. The artwork is awesome!

Fondly,
The Grizzly P.

[Apple (in Stereo)]

You need Dusk at Cubist Castle

[beautifulloser]

I too think Dusk is the better record. Better songs, and a little more varied. Black Foliage, while a great album, can at times be a very frustrating album to listen to and I agree that side four drags a bit.

[William]

I listen to Dusk At Cubist Castle alot more than Black Foliage but its hard to say if I actually like it more or not. I like the overall feel of Dusk At Cubist Castle more, Black Foliage is a bit muddy at times.

[mflat5]

I personally prefer Foliage over Castle due to its cohesive, yet disparaging structures and arching theme (many songs are in the same key... many are built upon a single idea that is stretched across various tracks).

Foliage is daring, oblique and has some truly GREAT songs. The sound experimentation isn't just for show, kicks or artist indulgence... it actually adds dimensions to the songs.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Castle -- more of a straightforward pop album that deserves a listen. There are more straight-on songs that harken back to 60s pop / Brit pop, and many of them have potential to be sleeper hits.

I recommend getting them both and comparing for yourself.

ps:
Anyone else out there find the Green Typewriter tracks to be a bit cloying and trite?

[nervesandgel]

hmmm, i think side four of black foilage is one of the strongest sides on the album.

i think i like black foilage better just because dusk sounds like its jumping around too much where black foilage sounds like a whole album. but i will add that there isn't a sonng on dusk i don't like.

to answer your question mflat5 i probably listen to the green typewriters side the most

[acrobat]

Originally posted by mflat5
ps:
Anyone else out there find the Green Typewriter tracks to be a bit cloying and trite?

whoa. absolutely not.

my favorite song on the entire album is Green Typewriters #14.

Green Typewriters is absolutely crucial to the record. I don't know if I've ever listened to that album without listening all the way through.

[DrinkTeaEatBooks]

Originally posted by s
Like Cornelius released such singles. I haven't listened to Cornelius ones, either.

Really? I wasn't aware of this! Was it the Star Fruits Surf Rider B-sides, with Star Fruits Blue and Star Fruits Green or something? Or am I getting confused?

As for OTC, I personally prefer Dusk, although they are super-incredibly-amazingly close. Were it not for the stupifyingly good harmonics in Jumping Fences (which even on the 100th listen still makes me all weak at the knees), and 'How much longer... Can I wait?', I think Black Foliage may have it. Both spooktacular, though...

[Little DiSH Z]

Black Foliage gets the nod just frothe songs "Grass cannons" , "I have been Floated" , and "New Day"




..and pretty much everything else.

[Harnk]

I guarantee you will eat those words..mark my words.

[grimble gromble]

Half-Handed... I thought the same thing when I had my first listen to Black Foliage. I shelved it for almost a year before having another listen and oh my... the Foliage grows and grows and grows on you. There is a whole lot going on and it can be a bit abrasive the first few listens, but i ensure you that the more you listen, the more the 'white noise/pointless noodling' will open up to you and become an essential part of the whole... just give it time. :)

[nervesandgel]

i think the best thing to do with black foilage is listened to it by sides. they seperated the sides on the cd tracklisting. just listen to the first so many songs on repeat for a couple days. then with the second side ect.....
then once you know the songs rather well go back and listen to the whole thing, it makes a lot more sense then.

[esme]

I agree with Harnk. you will totally eat those words :)

unfortunately I had no words to eat. black foliage struck me on first listen :(

[dylan]

the first time i listened to black foliage i was 12 years old and thought that it may have potential. now it is my favorite e6 record next to aeroplane over the sea and is in my top ten of all time. i once listened to it on headphones on the roof of my house, just starring at the clouds....i suggest doing that now, go on, you'll enjoy it.....

[ihavenoface]

im thinking, and im thinking that black foliage IS the best E6 record ever, I cant really compare it and aeroplane together though, they are so different. But on the topic of black foliage, it is the best OTC, and just one of the best things ever created ever.

[thecauseofgauze]

black foliage!

[BigBlackSmoke]

i dont know what it is but i have always like dusk at cubist castle more..i dont know why but it seems like i want to listen to it more often

[call me hi]

i've got to go with black foliage but it wasn't always that way. i didn't like black foliage better until after a few listens. yeah, it flows better but i think that the songs are simply better. it has turned into my favorite e6 release. dusk is probably my third or at worst fourth favorite e6 album, though. you can't go wrong.

[theallnewcarefulmary]

i still can't decide!
and i don't want to!
i cannot express how much i adore these albums. they were our first e6 purchases and remain our most precious.
incidentally does the bonus cd of ambient tracks play simultaneously with dusk? i have both albums on vinyl and the bonus is on cd so i can't do it, (despite trying!).
oh and before i forget the peel seesions is essential as well.
utterly brilliant

[Salman]

I'd say Black Foliage by a slight margin.

[airplane]

i can see where you're coming from. there are more mind-bendingly great "songs" on dusk at cubist castle.

black foliage is so incredible i fear it may not really exist. the sounds reach into areas of my mind i never knew existed..

and it never gets old (unlike many songs on dusk which i tend to skip)..

[thecauseofgauze]

a familiar noise called "train director" is still what drops my jaw. along with the rest of the album, of course. i'm curious as to what substance the band was on when writing and recording this record, and if it was any different than what was used during the cubist sessions. my guess is lsd, but the reason i ask is the fact that drugs play such an integral part in the recording process, and i'm a musician myself, so naturally i'm just curious to know.

long live otc.

[Salman]

I don't think they were on any drugs. But I may be wrong.

[gleemax]

You'd be forgiven for thinking that the E6 aesthetic is, at least on the face of it, pharmacologically fueled. "When we toured England, every single journalist began by asking us what drugs we take and in what quantity," cracks Olivia Tremor Control's Bill Doss. "We've experimented with all the normal stuff. But we're more interested in the imagery and using it to make something that gets you to a certain place in your head."

[s]

Originally posted by gleemax
You'd be forgiven for thinking that the E6 aesthetic is, at least on the face of it, pharmacologically fueled. "When we toured England, every single journalist began by asking us what drugs we take and in what quantity," cracks Olivia Tremor Control's Bill Doss. "We've experimented with all the normal stuff. But we're more interested in the imagery and using it to make something that gets you to a certain place in your head."

what is "all the normal stuff"?
... laugh, folks. especially foreginers. laugh at me

[s]

i have confident to make any kind of psychedelic, crazy, weird, hard-to-understand music without any drugs, even the normal stuff. if someone would ask me if i'm on drugs, i'd be like, " no way, dude! you could come to my house and investigate my home if you could find that sort of stuff."

laugh at me, laugh LAUGH.

[s]

don't laugh!

[thecauseofgauze]

this thread needed to be revived!

[Stormx]

Certainly. Sad how many people are gone :(

[VenusInFurs341]

I used to love Black Foliage, now I find it really just an annoying album, especially everything after I have bene floated

[radiowires]

Interesting. The more I listen to it, the more I love it. Especially the part after "I have been floated". Nowadays I'm tending to think that Hilltop Procession (Momentum Gaining) is one of the most beautiful songs ever written and recorded, by anyone.

[Soma]

I love hilltop

[thekingisdead]

i wonder who the lucky people are who had their dreams used in the song.

[G]

hilltop is my favourite otc song with floated

[DavidLeeRoth]

I'll be listening to Black Folliage tonight I think you should too!

DLR

[rogersbowne]

what about a bottle of wine and black foliage.

it's now officially, occurring.

[Edited on 9-6-0707 by rogersbowne]

[Siah]

I'm about to listen to Black Foliage my first time ever, i've heard tracks off of it, but never the whole thing before today.

[hockywierdo]

Originally posted by jcmoods
For me Black Foliage is a record that interests you at first listen, you put it aside for a second, then come back to one of the songs, then you realize that it's so beautifully awesome that you have to go back over and over and inspect every single nuance of the sonic bliss.

thats how almost all OTC is for me. im in love with them all over again.

[radiowires]

Originally posted by jcmoods
For me Black Foliage is a record that interests you at first listen, you put it aside for a second, then come back to one of the songs, then you realize that it's so beautifully awesome that you have to go back over and over and inspect every single nuance of the sonic bliss.

That's how Black Foliage is for me, too. Singles and Beyond, too. I've always wanted Dusk to be the same way, and I listen to it and listen to it, but it sounds I don't know, less dimensional. Like flat rather than full. Waaah. I feel like I'm close to resonating with it, but it eludes me. Maybe someday. I love OTC enough to keep trying.

[lou2ser]

Originally posted by jcmoods
I see no point in creating a new thread for this, so:

Does it sound to any of you guys like it's Julian Koster singing with those other guys in the beginning of Hilltop Procession (Momentum Gaining)?

I was just wondering 'cause it's bothering me.

[Edited on 9-16-0707 by jcmoods]

Wow, I want your life if this is whats bothering you.

Yeah, thats Julian. Of course, if you owned the CD or LP you could have just looked at the liner notes.

You should pick up a copy. www.cloudrecordings.com :)

[robonuckket!]

Originally posted by thekingisdead
i wonder who the lucky people are who had their dreams used in the song.

i knowww. you think they'd be, like, permanent fixtures here. i mean, they were an integral part.
so awesome.

[Siah]

I'm listening to Dusk for the first time now.

[robonuckket!]

i listened to BF again today and thinking about it, it tends to drag on for a bit, but the fourth side is so great. "Another Set of Bees..." is a contender for my all time favorite song.